The below transcript is from an March 2012 interview with Bruce Miller, Executive Vice President at BNY Mellon. Interviewees for the series Out on Top: Executive Pride were asked for their personal opinions and not those reflective of their current or past employer. The views expressed are not necessarily those of any employer or this website.

Quick Question Links:
Personal History – Out at Work – Pre-Out Relationship – Post-Out Relationship – Productivity Impact – Work Not Place to Be Out – Inclusion Dividend – ERGs – Advice to Non-LGBT Inclusive Companies

Dagoba Group: Give us a brief overview of your work history and your current role.

My 28 year career at BNY Mellon, then the Bank of New York, started in 1984 as a summer intern. I invested two years in the management development program before becoming a lending officer. After earning my MBA on weekends through Wharton’s executive MBA program, I got my first big career move with an outstanding opportunity to head up lending activities in the western states and Hawaii from our Los Angeles office.

In 2000, I returned to New York City and spent a year leading six divisions in corporate lending. Over the years, the company has made 75 acquisitions and with those we look to create strategic synergies. Given my experience, I was asked to start our Strategic Sales group and through it connected all of our businesses and client-facing employees, in addition to creating a full and cohesive sales program. This role was akin to a chief sales strategist position. Most recently, in 2010, the company formed a group of senior executives dedicated to focusing on our largest global partners and relationships.

I am now the global interface to five of these clients with responsibility for relationships across five continents. In this role, I am charged with innovation to support the success of our clients as well as to grow our revenue streams. Clients see me as their advocate and an issue resolution contact, when that’s needed. It’s a role in which I often interact with the chief executive level.

Dagoba Group: Understanding coming out in one’s personal life is often different than the time one comes out publically at work. At what point in your career did you become public in work about your sexual orientation and why?

I started telling my close colleagues when I was in California. At that time, I did not share my personal life with senior management. Nor would I put a photo of my partner in my office. It was an “in between” phase for me. In 2006, I was one of a few senior people that approached upper management to form an LGBT affinity group.

I wanted to move the company further along on these issues and that was the real coming out moment for me. I can remember sending a request to the CEO to sponsor a table at an upcoming GLISTEN event. A month later, we merged with Mellon Financial. I found out they already had an LGBT affinity group, so I raised my hand to be one of the two co-chairs of the new company’s LGBT affinity network group, called PRISM, which made me out company-wide.

Dagoba Group: Prior to you being out at work, how would you describe your conversations with other colleagues and supervisors? How would you describe your relationship?

Before you come out, you definitely feel a bit detached. I remember feeling like I could never really be myself. There was a piece missing in the conversation. You have to change or avoid pronouns… change the discussion of where you vacation… Instead of saying Fire Island you might say Long Island… Instead of saying who you are going out with, you say “friends.”

It turns out to be a lot of time spent guarding what a manager or your peers know. I don’t think anybody that is totally in the closet could be as productive as they might be in an environment where they can just be themselves. It drains so much time, emotionally and mentally, out of your day to have to conceal your identity.

Dagoba Group: After you became public about your sexual orientation at work, how would you describe your conversations with other colleagues and supervisors? How would you describe the nature of your relationships?

For me, the change was powerful and dramatic.

When you don’t share your personal life, you almost become androgynous. A mystery. And, people find it harder to relate to you. It is amazing the number of people who engage me more now and talk to me differently. There is openness. A few people even came to me rather quietly and said they did not know how to include me in conversations. They certainly didn’t want to offend or intrude by asking questions about my home life. Now, those artificial barriers have fallen away.

I am my best when I am being myself.

When you are who you are, you can more quickly establish a strong rapport. Teamwork and collaboration is so key to getting the work done here at BNY Mellon. If you are going to be part of a team, people have to be able to approach you and talk to you. You have to be part of the team and feel welcomed. It is hard to do that if people feel awkward approaching you to ask questions, or if you don’t feel comfortable telling them the truth.

Dagoba Group: In some ways it was not just you tip toeing around them, it was them tip toeing around you?

Absolutely. For example, I just told some people I was going on vacation. They asked me where I was going and who I was going with. They would have never asked me those questions 10 years ago.

Dagoba Group: You mentioned how you do not think it is possible for someone to be as productive in the closet as opposed to being out of the closet. Was there a difference in levels of your productivity pre and post being coming out at work?

Ultimately, I do think it is a personal choice. Not everyone has the luxury of being out. There are cultural and personal reasons, for example. It is an unfortunate thing, but a reality of life.

My experience is that when you are spending any time in any interaction whereby you cannot focus 100% on the conversation without trying to conceal things about yourself, you are not nearly as productive. Not being able to share simple things like what you did over the weekend or stories about your personal life, makes you an outlier.

Dagoba Group: You were successful while you were in the closet.

That’s right. I had to work extra hard to compensate. I was constantly changing conversations when it hit too close to home and I avoided social situations. For example, I would not go out to socialize at certain times and I was very savvy about what I would or would not participate in because I did not want to be put in an awkward position. Invariably, someone would always ask the magic question, “Are you married?” I would answer, “Well, I haven’t find the right girl yet.”
Thankfully, my wording evolved to the “right person.”

When you have to navigate like this all the time, clearly, it takes extra effort. In hindsight, I wish I could have spent that extra effort getting to know my colleagues even better, finding some hobby or enjoying life more instead of trying to changing the natural discussions that are part of a team and part of life.

Dagoba Group: You said you evolved from “the right girl” to the “right person.” Was there a time in which you pretended to be straight at work to protect or promote your career?

Pretending to be straight at work never works well. You spend too much time thinking about it and start feeling detached. You wonder: do they believe me or not? With clients, I felt as though I had no answer so I would change the topic. I always wanted to make that connection, so I would remember all of their children’s and spouse’s names. And, I really got to know people well, but when they wanted to ask about my personal life I was guarded and tended to shut the natural conversation down by changing the topic. My intentions were always good though. I never wanted to create an uncomfortable conversation.

Dagoba Group: What does it mean for your company for you to be comfortable with your sexual orientation at work?

People can really connect to me. Everyone has challenges or uniqueness their lives.

For me to be comfortable with my sexual orientation has allowed colleagues to see me as someone who is more understanding or sensitive. For example, colleagues have approached me about their kids being bullied in school.

I am comfortable in my own skin. At work this has allowed me to form relationships and to really move my career forward. It allows me to establish a better rapport with my colleagues because the barriers are down. People also feel more comfortable going out after work or having more involved conversations.

Dagoba Group: How do you respond when somebody says, “Work is not the place to be out.”?

We bring our lives to work every day. It is very hard to spend 40-50 hours every week in an organization without bringing your life into it. Being “out” is dated terminology. Straight people can’t separate who they are 50 hours a week.

The company benefits from employees who feel welcome.

At BNY Mellon, we continue to be recognized for best practices in diversity and inclusion, and this includes being named a top workplace by the Human Rights Campaign. Even though the bar was raised again this year, we still got a 100%.

The moral of this story is: no company can afford to leave any quality talent behind, regardless of differences.

Dagoba Group: What do you believe it means for a company in which people of different sexual orientations feel included?

We look to attract the best people.

People gravitate to those that share common interests. Hockey fans to hockey fans. Musical to musical. It is also very healthy in a company for LGBT people to find other LGBT people. We do have some remote locations where it is not as easy, which is why a global affinity network has been so beneficial to us. There are things unique to being a gay person.

Dagoba Group: In your opinion, does a company that expands its inclusive policy to include sexual orientation have a positive, negative or neutral effect on their client base?

My experience within a company whose policies recognize sexual orientation is very positive.

Clients feel so much more at ease conversing with me. I went to Petra on a gay tour and was able to speak to a senior executive client about it. He wanted to know what to do when he goes there with his wife. Another executive client noticed that I was the chair of the LGBT group and wanted me to meet their chair. It created another terrific contact for our companies. Another executive talked to me about having a grandson who is gay while we were attending a sporting event.

I’ve become more human and relatable. Being gay is just one part of me and it’s not the focus. I don’t have to divert away from that part of my life in conversations anymore. It really helps form bonds. You can’t form bonds with someone if you cannot be truthful by being yourself.

I am sensitive to cultural differences. We are a global company and I have a global role. It would be disingenuous for me if I did not do a tad bit of juggling. For example, if and when my work brings me to Dubai, I use another bio that doesn’t reference my role as Chair of LGBT affinity. It is amazing how helpful a little cultural sensitivity and awareness can be too.

Dagoba Group: How has forming bonds impacted the business?

It has been great for business because I have been able to make connections with companies (some just on the LGBT level). At every one of my clients’ companies, I know the heads of the LGBT affinity networks, which is a great advantage.

I have become so much more authentic to my clients. Clients also ask my opinions in these areas. Some clients don’t bring it up at all and I have respect for that. I respect everyone’s opinion. I have never had any push back or awkward questions.

I have become an internal resource to the company on the LGBT audience and issues. For example, RFPs often require answers on inclusion and diversity and I have the opportunity to shape those answers. For example, we have a huge wealth management business, so a week after New York had legalized same sex marriage we already had our staff set up to reach out to LGBT clients to talk about how that decision would affect wills and estates.

Dagoba Group: Do you belong to a LGBT employee resource group? Why or why not?

Yes, I co-chaired and started BNY Mellon’s LGBT group, PRISM, and I am now the executive chairman. We have over 1,000 members now. It helps us make sure they feel welcomed and part of the team.

I want to point out that our affinity network group is not just for LGBT people. We have a lot of people who have gay brothers, sisters, kids and so on. Our events are also very well-attended by our straight allies and that’s also critically important for building diversity and inclusion in our workplace.

Dagoba Group: How important is it for a company’s inclusive environment to have executives like yourself who are out?

It is vital. There is always a perception and a fear. Maybe this is my age and interpretation because I lived through the evolution. Early in my career, I remember hearing the “f” word in the workplace and it was acceptable then. It would not be acceptable today.

I think it is really important for people to see that their sexual orientation will not hold them back. Inclusion really plays an important role. Plus, I really do think it is important for our company. Diversity brings better decisions. If you have people with the same experiences making decisions, I think you miss something.

We have a global diversity and inclusion council. Our CEO chairs and participates in the discussion. We have learned more as a team with diversity, inclusion and the active involvement of our corporate leadership. It’s what drives us to become a better organization for ourselves, for our clients and for our communities.

Dagoba Group: For those companies that do not currently have an inclusive policy that includes sexual orientation, what is your advice?

When I am at work in this building, I am an equal.

One of the things about welcoming inclusion and diversity is that you can truly spend 100% of your time on what is important to your job and role in the company rather than trying to hide who you are as a person. Any fear that a company may have, just does not materialize. It’s an artificial barrier.

When people get to know each better, they become better and more productive team members.

You will have a better company.