The below transcript is from an August 2011 interview with Nereida (Neddy) Perez, VP Global Diversity and Inclusion at Ingersoll Rand.  Interviewees for the series Diversity and Inclusion: Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow were asked for their personal opinions and not those reflective of their current or past employer.  The views expressed are not necessarily those of any employer or this website.

Quick Question Links:
Personal History – CDO Role – D&I Origins – D&I Business Reason – Learning Tools – Workforce Application – Dimensions of Difference – Redo? – No Need for CDO Role – Most Advanced Country – Future Prediction

Dagoba Group: Give us a brief overview of your history within the D&I space.

Sure. I have been in this space now, for I say, 15-20 years. I started working in the D&I space at United Parcel Service when we were moving into the Latin American market. They were taking the US practices and trying to introduce them overseas. Unfortunately, sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn’t. In Latin America, particularly Mexico, they ran into a number of cultural issues; including a work stoppage. I was brought in as a Communications Supervisor. They needed someone to go in with a HR background to try and negotiate for a solution. My first big assignment was going into Mexico to end the work stoppage. We were able to do that by involving the last UPS founder at the time, George Lamb. We had to engage him in the conversation because the resolution required change to the policy book which did not allow for religion to be brought into the workplace. They acknowledged the value of religious differences, but not believe in having religious artifacts in the work environment. The stoppage was about how we were honoring the Virgin of Guadalupe week in Mexico. That was really my first introduction to managing cultural differences. We did not have a department or area called diversity and inclusion. After a couple years of working in HR at UPS, I decided to go back to school and get a masters in Human Resource Management. Started learning about inclusion and diversity. One of my school colleagues encouraged me to look for opportunities outside of UPS. I did and ended up going to work for Shell Oil. Shell was very progressive at what they were doing in the diversity and inclusion space. I got hired in to support the Communication and HR function. As part of that role I worked directly with the Office of Diversity and Inclusion for one of the divisions of Shell.

I have been doing this work now for close to 20 years. I would say the thing that really helped me along the way is being grounded in business operations which I learned a great deal of at UPS. The other piece was being grounded in the human resource side. When you are going in to speak to department managers and leaders you can really talk about both things and how they are interconnected. How D&I is really creating a space for individuals to be successful and deliver on their goals and objectives in order to drive productivity.

Over the course of the last 20 years, I really specialized in D&I by also looking at increasing my knowledge of different industries. I worked in the package distribution industry, the oil industry energy sector, food services management sector and at KPMG in the financial services sector. More recently have gone back into the energy sector working with utilities. Now I am working in the manufacturing industry.

Dagoba Group: As a diversity officer, what do you believe should be their overall responsibilities?

Well certainly people engagement; working very closely with the HR function to make sure the processes and policies in place are serving us to enable individuals to be as successful as possible. So often times what ends up happening is the HR function, and I heard this from many CDOs, tend to not always be the best partners. I would say it is a two way street. One is that as a CDO, we really have to understand the day to day responsibilities and pressures that are on the human resources team. Within that look for ways in which we can partner with them in order to help raise awareness and educate them about how some of the decisions that can be made through HR policies/processes may hinder the selection, the promotion, the development of individuals without them really intending them to.

I think one of the first core responsibilities of the CDO is to really build solid relationships with the HR function and understand the HR strategy. Within that find a role they can play as an advisor to the HR function. The second piece certainly is to understand the business sector, the goals and objectives of the business. In order to then be able to speak the language of the businesses. In order to be able to coach and advise the business around what is going to work and what is not going to work for them. And maybe some of the practices and goals in place may be exclusionary and may actually hinder people from being productive and successful in helping to drive business goals and objectives. Unfortunately, I think what ends up happening is diversity practitioners are assigned to the role because often times the corporation really does not understand itself how inclusion and diversity can help the organization drive change. So what ends up happening is they select someone who looks the part or feels like the part. Maybe it is someone who has been active in the community. Or someone that has done really well in a particular business sector and they are not quite sure where to place that person so they will bring them into the D&I function and say, “go figure it out and come back to us with recommendations.” This tends to happen when the company is either going thru a bad experience they have had with regards to employment issues or EEO or affirmative action investigations. They do not know how to respond. Or it tends to happen when clients of the corporation says, “I want to know about your supplier diversity numbers” or “I want to make sure the teams you are bringing in to do consulting for us are diverse in nature.” The corporation, in order to respond to the customer, may have a knee jerk reaction and say, “we need to put in place a diversity function.” Somebody might have read about a diversity function or attended a seminar. They will come back and suggest to create the office without understanding the responsibilities.

The other thing I have seen is too often the role of affirmative action and EEO tends to fall on the role of the CDO. Sometimes the person who is the CDO may know and understand EEO because they came out of HR, but they may not understand the other components of inclusion and diversity; particularly in the global marketplace. I just recently had a call with a CDO who was looking for a position. They were very grounded in affirmative action and EEO in the US. They were interviewing for a role as a CDO, but they have not worked in the global space. I was helping them prep for the interview. In the conversation they brought up that they were well versed in metrics. I said, “you know US metrics really do not correspond well in the global marketplace.” They asked, “what do you mean?” We had a conversation about how some countries have laws that do not follow the same path as the US laws follow.

Dagoba Group: For example, France is not big on a number of different corporate metrics.

Exactly. The good thing we were able to have a dialogue around it. There have been many other CDOs that inherited work in the global space and they are not as grounded in the laws that may or may not apply. There is where the relationship between the CDO and the HR function and/or global legal counsel is really important in order to makes sure you are developing metrics. Developing metrics that really resonate with the organization and its objectives in those countries.
As a CDO you really are serving as a consultant to the businesses, HR function and legal function. You have to walk a very fine line.

Dagoba Group: You nicely answered our next question around the origination of diversity initiatives around legal compliance, so we will skip this question. One quick one on legal compliance, if you were going to pick one of your industries what percent of D&I today stems from being legally compliant in your opinion?

If I was just talking about the US, I would say in the US in general companies that are rolling out diversity initiatives are still focusing 80% or more on the legal compliance side. Or were pushed into doing D&I as a result of some kind of investigation or complaint or issue that was brought to their attention.

Dagoba Group: At what point do you believe D&I became a business reason (non-legal compliant) focus within the corporate world? Why?

I personally believe the reason D&I started surfacing as a business factor was really when corporations starting moving towards becoming global. The reason I say that is because many corporations were moving into global markets and realizing, “I can’t do business the way I did it in the US because it doesn’t work that way.” Or they did not understand the language, or how business was done there or not aware of how these work councils that exist in Europe. I think the whole piece of companies becoming global pushed corporations to start realizing that D&I is really a critical part of how we do business in order to create environment that allow people to be successful and allow the corporation to be successful by navigating the cultural nuances within the country.

Dagoba Group: Do you believe there is still a lot of work to be done on developing the business case behind D&I?

I now have worked for five or six difference companies. Every company I have come to, the business case is pretty much the same. There might be one or two things that are slightly different, but the business case will all have the reason to become the employer of choice. They will have in their business case that they are striving to attract and retain top talent. They will have that they are trying to drive innovation for the few more progressive companies. Others will have they are looking to engage their employees or become a good corporate citizen. I think those five pieces you will see replicated in every single business case around inclusion and diversity. They are all valid. The difference is where and how much attention the companies give to one or two of those elements.

Dagoba Group: Are you finding companies are attaching real numbers to their initiatives?

When you say real numbers, are you talking about metrics?

Dagoba Group: The numbers might be a revenue figure attached to a specific D&I initiative.

One of my specialty areas is around employee resource groups. I would venture to guess having coached other CDOs and working with other corporations beyond the ones I have been employed, that what I have seen is the conversation about linking the impact of inclusion and diversity are still going on within corporations. It has been going on for the last six seven years. The best person to answer that question is Ed Hubbard. He created one the true systems around measuring the impact around the initiatives. The other person would be Craig Clayton. Those are the two people I know who have talked publically about measurement around D&I. The other person who I have a lot of high regard for is Brian Gingrich with Wells Fargo Wachovia now. He created the metrics system at Sodexho. I would say there still a handful of companies who have really have successfully put in place measures to show how D&I can really affect the bottom line. I believe in general, in the marketplace, people are still dialoguing around how you really can track the success around diversity factors. I have not seen other than those I mentioned anything that is truly tangible around impact.

Now ERG, I believe there you can really measure the impact of success. The very nature of ERG focusing on one particular underserved group within the organization, you can find where those affinity groups have focused on a business case on how they impacted the organization you will find the Frito Lay type stories. Nestle’s Abuelita chocolate is a good example. Shell Oil’s SPNG, Southeast Pan Asian Network, created true market difference when they launched an organization called Rainbow Challenge. It was designed to help kids in underserved communities take an interest in the math and sciences area. It was so successful that the Rainbow Challenge became its own stand alone non-profit foundation that now run these math challenge programs throughout the Houston community and into places like Austin and San Antonio. It was so successful they ended up creating a PBS special based around the involvement of ERG and them engaging other organizations to create that foundation. There are great success stories that come out of ERG. In general, the diversity practitioner community really has not been able to showcase how they are driving change within the business. There are good stories out there, but it is spotty.

Dagoba Group: When you look into the past, what tools worked best for educating the corporate world in D&I? Do you believe they are still effective today? What do you believe is the best method for development for today and tomorrow?

Personally, I believe the classroom is the best way to bring people together and really see where they are because it provides an opportunity for deeper learning and interconnection. When you get people in the room, you have a much stronger dialogue around what works and what doesn’t. You are reading people’s body languages. You are reading not only what they are saying, but how it is being said. Giving people the opportunity to express and having interactive activities is really critical. I think we moved past the stagnant classroom teaching of “I am the expert. I am imparting my knowledge on you. Go out and apply this.” Rather we now entered, in the last 10-15 years, that more of hands-on touchy feely environment of lets dialogue. What were your experiences? How do we best leverage your experiences in the work environment? I think that piece is still critical and very much needed. Because of the Gen X and Millennials being so highly focused on technology and receiving information via technology, I believe the piece going forward is creating an environment where classroom space can still exist but allows a higher level of interactivity utilizing technologies.

I can really see in the future where creating interactive scenarios online is going to be the best vehicle for delivering one on one personal training. Classroom learning with regards to D&I, to me, will never be completely replaced because there are so many layers to D&I discussion that can be misunderstood…technology is not yet sophisticated enough to truly help someone understanding the various nuances of human nature when it comes to diversity and inclusion.

Dagoba Group: We spoke about the reasons for D&I origination and the tools to deliver the conversation. Within the workforce D&I area (recruiting, promotions, raises, team development, retention etc) which one do you believe is the most advanced? Which has the greatest need?

I think a lot of companies are in the marketplace doing tons of work around recruiting and workforce attraction. The growing gap a lot of companies really have not addressed is how do you grow global talent. I am not talking about recruiting somebody in the US if you are doing business in the US, or recruiting somebody in India if you are doing business in India. I am talking about global leadership. Individuals that may be recruited in India, but may end up working in the US. Or that recruited in the US to work in The Netherlands and will serve/work in multiple countries within their lifetime in the corporation. I feel there is a gap there nobody has really addressed.

Dagoba Group: If you are looking at the many dimensions of differences within our workplace (e.g. gender, cultural, religious, age, ableness, sexual orientation, ethnicity etc). For your industry, what do you see as the most wide spread or popular area of development? Where do you see it moving in the future?

In every industry I know, the number one focus is around the development of women. That is both on the US and global basis. Women are the number one focus in most corporations. Every company that has a D&I focus will have some kind of initiative around women in place.

The area I feel has not received enough attention in the space are the area of people with disabilities. In the US it has become a hot topic because so many people in the military are coming back who are suffering from post-traumatic stress or have a physical disability or inherent disorder that occurred as a result of serving our country. You also have a greater deal of attention being placed to the amendment of People with Disabilities Act. It is a much stronger area of interest now. Around the globe, it is still not a major area of focus.

There is still a critical issue around the globe, the area is the LGBT community. There are some countries that do not believe in having laws or practices in place that respect members of the LGBT community. In some countries, a smaller portion today, will arrest and/or kill someone who is known to be a member of the LGBT community. There is still work to be done in that space from a human rights perspective.

The other area which is going to become the number one focus area in the next half of the 21st century is religious differences. You have so much unrest in the world going on because of religious differences. The situation in Asia with regards to Buddhism and the Dalai Lama. You got challenges within the Middle East in terms of the Muslim and Jewish communities. These are issues you need to take in account when you are doing business in the global marketplace. It is really going to be a hot topic in the second half of the 21st century.

Dagoba Group: Knowing that this space is constantly evolving and we are all learning regardless of our expertise, if you were able to turn the clock back and redo a particular engagement on D&I (either one you have given or experienced), what would it be and why? How would you do it differently?

The one factor I would change, had I known better myself earlier on, is to not focus only on race and gender, but really have focused around the broader discussion around what D&I really is; the seen and unseen factors that you can come into contact with in the workplace environment whether they be communication styles, thinking styles, work ethics, religious difference or gender orientation differences. I think if I could turn the clock back it would be to engage corporations sooner rather than later around the conversation about inclusion in terms on why and how it is important to us to tap the talents and leverage the knowledge of individuals from a holistic perspective. Many of us did not know any better. The work had started to happen and unfold. The more you do you research around our difference, the more you gain more knowledge. I think a lot of really good work was done early on, but it primarily focused on two dimensions. We know now better. There are more dimensions to this work than was seen some time ago.

Dagoba Group: Some say it is the role of a D&I officer to work themselves out of a job by creating an inclusive workplace which will no longer need the D&I focus. Have you heard this before and how do you respond to this statement?

I have heard it hundreds and hundreds of times. I would say that is a fallacy. I am a Trekky. In the Next Generation series, there was a person that played the role of the councilor.

Dagoba Group: Deanna Troy.

Yes, yes. Deana Troy. I kind think of D&I professionals as Deanna Troys because in human nature we are always venturing out exploring new landscapes, new horizons and so forth. My position is that there will always be a need for Deanna Troys. No matter where you go or what you do, the interactions of human nature are so complex that what happens is you sometimes need someone who will serve as the middle person or interpreter who will have both minds come to a resolution. I think, in corporations today, managers and leaders are moving so quickly making decisions at the speed of light around business interactions the human dynamics and impacts of us to be able to perform sometimes doesn’t take center stage. There are times for that Deanna Troy to say, “Have you thought about the impact on your people?” I see that as the role of the D&I practitioner. “Great idea. Phenomenal. Yes, we can achieve 150% productivity by doing XYZ. However, have you thought about the impact on your team?” That is part of our role.

The other piece is that I think there is an opportunity as a CDO or diversity practitioner that we have to be able to engage other individuals. The group that sits the closest being able to support business decisions being made is those HR business advisors in the field. By working with them we can create better opportunities for engagement; especially as the HR business community is becoming more respected and included in the business decisions of a strategic plan. Eventually there will be still a need for a CDO in a corporation, but rather than having large diversity functions we will move towards engaging the change networks in our company…better engaging the HR business community in the delivering of awareness initiatives.

Dagoba Group: I believe Deanna Troy is a great metaphor since she had to work with the workforce to create an environment where they can be more productive in a very diverse space as well as work with the executive team in engaging new worlds. Moving down from the galactic space to earth, which country have you found to be the most advanced in the corporate D&I conversation? Why?

It is really hard to answer because we all seem to be at different stages. It varies from company to company. A company like IBM is equally advanced in most countries they do business in speaking to the aspects of D&I. Pepsi has done an extensive and great job in Turkey. The kind of foundational of work companies did when they first started the D&I journey makes a difference. Depending on the topic there may be a country that has a leading edge on the conversation.

Dagoba Group: Taking out your crystal ball to look ten years from now, where do you believe we will be in this discussion? Where would you like us to be? Let’s focus on the US corporate space for now.

I think we will still be having the dialogue on how do we attract the best talent or how do we engage employee productivity in the work environment. Ten years from now we would probably be doing a better job around disabilities in the environment. Even on the gender orientation piece we will be doing a lot more in terms of types of benefits offered to LGBT employees. Ten years from now women will be more than 51% in the work environment so we should see more progression of women in the workplace. The question is will minority women move equally as fast as Caucasian women. It is one of those taboo topics people tend to overlook in discussion. It will be the question if all women move ahead or predominantly Caucasian women moving ahead.

Certainly, the Gen X and Mellennials will play a huge influence. I bet you we will going to be much more focused on contingent work employees than we ever been. More than likely most employers will not have done a good enough job around transferring knowledge from workers retiring so we will leverage retirement age individuals as a contingent workforce.

Dagoba Group: Really enjoyed our conversation. Great information. You have a very broad experience from different industries, global viewpoints and the applications of D&I. Thank you.