The below transcript is from an April 2012 interview with Cameron Cartmell, Partner at Ernst & Young London. Interviewees for the series Out on Top: Executive Pride were asked for their personal opinions and not those reflective of their current or past employer. The views expressed are not necessarily those of any employer or this website.

Quick Question Links:
Personal History – Out at Work – Pre-Out Relationship – Post-Out Relationship – Productivity Impact – Work Not Place to Be Out – Inclusion Dividend – ERGs – Advice to Non-LGBT Inclusive Companies

Dagoba Group: Give us a brief overview of your work history and your current role.

I have been a partner at Ernst & Young for five years. Previously, I have worked for other large accountant firms. I have been in the profession for approximately 15 years specializing in Audit and Assurance – auditing public company financial statements. I lead Ernst & Youngs Hospitality and Leisure industry team in the UK and across Europe and also work with a number of media and entertainment clients.

Dagoba Group: Understanding coming out in one’s personal life is often different than the time one comes out publically at work. At what point in your career did you become public in work about your sexual orientation and why?

I probably came “out out” when I moved firms and started my employment with Ernst & Young. Prior to EY only my close friends in work knew I was gay. Others did not inquire about my sexual orientation because I was not public about it. A contributing factor to me coming out at EY was due to their orientation process. On the first day of orientation there was an introduction to their EYGLES group (EY’s LGBT employee resource group). Arriving at an organization which had a LGBT inclusive culture, combined with my personal confidence, enabled me to be open to my new colleagues.

Dagoba Group: Prior to you being out at work (which would have been prior to EY), how would you describe your conversations with other colleagues and supervisors? How would you describe your relationships?

Although most people probably knew my sexual orientation, they just did not broach the subject with me. We would be in a place where you would avoid conversations which would not have been avoided if you were open about your personal life. Conversations would become very bland and move on quickly. It was all a little bit contrived with a superficial air about it. It did not allow you to fully connect with your workmates.

Dagoba Group: After you became public about your sexual orientation at work, how would you describe your conversations with other colleagues and supervisors? How would you describe the nature of your relationships?

Generally it brings a certain level of commitment to an organization. By allowing yourself to be very open, you receive a much more honest relationship. It builds trust which allows you to build stronger relationships. It was not as if I was hiding anything prior, it just allowed the conversations to be more comfortable and gave me an opportunity to generate discussions of interest to me. It was certainly a different level of relationship and conversations on a broader basis. Honestly, it gave me a higher sense of confidence which is required to be successful at a senior level. On a personal note, the work environment was much more enjoyable.

Dagoba Group: Was there a difference in levels of your productivity pre and post coming out at work?

I have always been productive. Certainly, in a situation where you can be yourself and not have to invest energy into being something else, you will most definitely be more productive. I did feel much more relaxed. I was enjoying my work life more. My career progression moved quicker when I could fully be myself. This could be related to a number of factors from stronger relationships, more confidence and generally having a higher connection between personal and work life.

Dagoba Group: We have heard there seems to be a lot more energy invested “pre coming out” to maintaining the wall between private and work life. “Post” coming out allowed the individual to better invest that energy in other areas. Although you might be as productive on both ends, there is what at The Dagoba Group we call the Inclusion Dividend.

I can’t believe that is not the case. Coming out allows you to focus on the day to day things which really matter. Prior, I spent time and energy worry about the things that did not really matter, I thought were important, but added little value to my work or personally life.

Dagoba Group: Was there a time in which you pretended to be straight at work to protect or promote your career?

I can’t believe anybody who has gone through this journey at work has not had this experience. I came out in my personal life at the age of 23 and did not come out at work until the age of 33. During that transition you do behave in certain ways to hide your orientations. I would take my “friends” to work events as guests, at the early stage of my career; I was scared like many people were. It is incredible how things have changed, today; we are actively recruiting from the LGBT community, which is brilliant.

Dagoba Group: How do you respond when somebody says, “Work is not the place to be out.”?

Coming into a new organization was an enabler for me to be open. If you have been in an organization hiding your personal life for a long time it must be harder to come out and ultimately it’s it is a personal choice. For me it’s all about being honest and sharing your personal life. This is quite common for many of my straight colleagues, no one would think about asking them not to talk about their spouses or families at work.

I have also found it can be a generational issue , at a recent function, some junior colleagues were wondering why sexual orientation was even an issue today in the workplace, it’s very normal for them to have out gay friends

Dagoba Group: We have been speaking about the internal impact. Let’s switch gears for a moment and focus on the external audience. In your opinion, does a company that expands its inclusive policy to include sexual orientation have a positive, negative or neutral effect on their client base?

In the majority of cases, it would have a positive effect. If it is an established business in a developed environment, the concept of not having diversity on your team is illogical. Most mature businesses today understand the benefits of diversity of all kinds. The majority of our client pitches today require us to explain our diversity and inclusion policies. We need to provide evidence we invest in those policies. Sexual orientation is just one aspect of those policies.

Dagoba Group: You mentioned the EYGLES Group, EY’s LGBT employee resource group. Are you currently a member? Why or why not?

Yes, I am. I was also an executive sponsor and a co-chair. If I reflect back on the six years at the firm, being involved with the EYGLES Group is probably one of the things I have enjoyed the most. I have probably influenced more organizations through that group than I have done in my day to day work. The networks have enabled many other colleagues to be comfortable being out in the workplace. Membership has more than doubled since I joined. It is also an incredibly fantastic way to develop high performing individuals in your organization. Network groups give access to senior executives in the organization for personal coaching and exposure.

Dagoba Group: How important is it for a company’s inclusive environment to have executives like yourself who are out?

It is absolutely critical. Everyone needs a role model. Role models do not need to be LGBT, they just need to be educated in the area and approachable. An environment which does not allow executives to be themselves at work sends the wrong message throughout the organization.

Dagoba Group: For those companies that do not currently have an inclusive policy that includes sexual orientation, what is your advice?

The initial critical step would be to secure real leadership with passion around the topic. I would tell them my personal story and how it has impacted me as a senior employee. I would also tell them how we have been able to engage and retain high performing individuals. In times when companies need the best and the brightest, it can only be a disservice to the company as a whole when any of these individuals do not feel welcome at work.