The below transcript is from an October 2011 interview with Lorie Valle-Yanez, VP and Chief Diversity Officer at MassMutual.  Interviewees for the series Diversity and Inclusion: Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow were asked for their personal opinions and not those reflective of their current or past employer.  The views expressed are not necessarily those of any employer or The Dagoba Group.

Quick Question Links:
Personal History – CDO Role – D&I Origins – D&I Business Reason – Learning Tools – Workforce Application –Dimensions of Difference – Redo? – No Need for CDO Role –Most Advanced Country – Future Prediction

Dagoba Group: Please give us a brief overview of your history within the D&I space.

I entered into the field in 1989. My experience spans three different industries starting with a research and development laboratory, Lawrence Livermore Laboratory in California. I was there for a number of years and really learned the business of diversity from the person I went to go work for who took me under his wing and taught me about the field. It was a new field. What I liked about it was we really were not quite sure what we were going to do. We made it up as we went along in many ways which was appealing to me at the time. In 2002, I left that organization and joined ESPN in Connecticut. It was brand new to that organization. I built the diversity strategy from the ground up working with their leadership. I was there for six years. Three years ago I came out to MassMutual to do a similar thing; to create a diversity strategy and plan.

Dagoba Group: If you are looking at a CDO role, what do you believe should be the overall responsibilities for that role?

I do think it is about putting together a strategy and plan so that you can bring alignment to the efforts of the organization; so certainly a strategy and a business case. Working together and being a partner to the leadership to make sure that plan you do develop is a comprehensive plan and is really owned by the leadership of the company. Then it is creating the pathway forward. It is the strategy and then what it is we have to do to execute on that strategy. I see the role as very much about integration into the culture and operations of the organization. It is not about taking ownership yourself, but rather influencing others to take ownership over the efforts and run with the ball.

Dagoba Group: Often we hear corporate diversity initiatives originated in response to legal compliance. Do you believe this is true for the financial services industry? What percent of D&I initiatives do you believe stem from the need to stay legally compliant today?

I’d probably say there are a lot of organizations in general, outside of the industry, that are compelled to begin work in this space from a compliance perspective. That certainly has not been my experience in this industry. When I look at what we and our competitors are focused on, it is absolutely about understanding the business opportunity. Understanding that the change in demographics means the face of the customer is going to change over time. It is happening at a much more accelerated rate than anyone anticipated. I just came from an insurance diversity roundtable in Chicago. Several of our competitors were in the room. Nobody was there because of compliance. Everyone was there because we are all trying to figure this out for a competitive advantage for our organizations.

Dagoba Group: When do you believe D&I became a business reason (non-legal compliant) focus within the corporate world? Why?

I would say “progressive” companies started to talk about the business case back in the 90’s. I certainly didn’t hear much about the business case in the 80’s. In the 90’s there were some progressive companies. Microsoft is an example of a progressive organization that I began to hear conversations about the business case. At that time I was trying to figure out how I could create a business case for my organization which was government funded and run by a University full of scientists and engineers. What is the compelling business case for that type of organization? I remember it was back somewhere around the early to mid 90’s I began to hear a lot more about the business case. It really started with the “progressive organizations.” I think as the field evolved it has become the primary reason people are doing the work they are doing within organizations today; really focused on the business case more so than compliance.

Dagoba Group: Do you believe there is still a lot of work to be done on developing the business case behind D&I?

I think more work needs to be done as a CDO going into the organization. You have to make the business case that is relevant to your organization, culture and industry. We all know about the shifting demographics, but now how do you tie that to the things you do every single day? What is the opportunity for us in the organization? While I think the business case is clear when we talk about the shifting demographics, how do you take that and make it relevant for the organization you are in?

Dagoba Group: What conversation have you found to be the most engaging for line managers?

It is the same. They need to know why it is important to them. At Lawrence Livermore Labs being in the space of diversity was about good science. Understanding diversity thought would increase the chances we would have a scientific breakthrough. At ESPN it was about serving the fans worldwide. Were we really serving our fan base? At MassMutual it is about our policy holders and reaching policy holders in the world that is changing. I talk about relevance when you can get line managers or front line employees in the room and ask, “Why is this important to MassMutual?” You share with them relevant statistics around what our business is about and where the opportunities are. It is then much easier for people to get onboard.

Dagoba Group: We spoke about the engaging conversation. Our next question is about the tools that convey that conversation. What tools worked best in the past for educating the corporate world in D&I? Are they still effective today? What do you believe is the best method for development for today and tomorrow?

Education is definitely important. Employee resource groups are still important. They are evolving. They were coming from a place of being compliant back then. We had ERGs that were called other things such as network or affinity groups. We went from the place where it was the right thing to do. That evolved. Now we are in a place where it is right for the business. ERGs are still very important, but they serve a completely different purpose. Now the ERGs are called resource groups because they are tasked to be a resource to the business to drive results. That is the evolution. How we use the tools are changing. Classroom training used to solely be about cultural differences and why diversity was the right thing to do. That has changed to focusing on why diversity is important from the business perspective. We also focus on learning about behaviors and competencies that lead to creating a more diverse and inclusive workplace. We are moving more towards business outcomes so metrics become much more important. Return on investment becomes much more important. Are the things that we are doing making an impact? Who is buying our insurance and what is the mix of that audience? Is it changing? Are premiums increasing or decreasing? These are some of the ways we measure the success of our diversity and inclusion efforts. Today it is much more metric driven. All of us are grappling with what the right metrics are and how to demonstrate ROI. I would say CDOs of the past didn’t have to be students of the business. CDOs currently, and into the future, have to understand the business so they can help move it to where it wants to be.

We, as diversity leaders and practitioners, have moved beyond “we just want you to have a little bit of awareness and be a little more open to difference.” Now it is about the sustainability of our business. It is absolutely critical and a priority for the company. We need leaders to understand their role in executing the strategy. The conversation is different than in the past.

Dagoba Group: There are many different areas D&I can be applied. You spoke to a few of them including supplier diversity and targeting your audience. For the financial insurance industry, within the workforce D&I area (recruiting, promotions, raises, team development, retention etc) which one do you believe is the most advanced? Which has the greatest need?

For the insurance and financial services, I still think recruiting is very very important. In general though, beyond this industry once you understand where to go to bring more diversity to your candidate slates, recruiting ends up being the sort of easy part. For this industry recruitment is still very challenging. The industry has been around for a long time and is very conservative and somewhat insular. We end up stealing the same talent from each other. It is an industry issue. Recruitment is still important. Until we become a very diverse organization it will always be the forefront. You have to have focus on everything you mentioned, recruiting, promotions, advancement, team development and retention. I would say the big piece after recruitment is retention. In general, very few companies have achieved success in being diverse and even fewer are inclusive. People will only assimilate to a certain point. People want to be themselves and will seek out another place where they can be more of themselves. Retention is a very important piece of this pie and is still not advanced. Either you have a great culture for diversity or you don’t. It might be a great culture for some people and not for others. I do think there is a great need to understand how we can do better at retaining talent. I think many organizations and industries are grappling with that issue.

Recruitment is the most advanced, but retention is the greatest need.

Dagoba Group: There are many dimensions of differences within our workplace (e.g. gender, cultural, religious, age, ableness, sexual orientation, ethnicity etc). As we grow and evolve in this field the recognized list of dimensions of differences also grows. For financial services/insurance industry, what do you see as the most wide spread area of development? Where do you see it moving in the future?

Absolutely, I would say the area of race and ethnicity is the most popular really driven by the demographic shifts in our country. The fact is that people of color will be the majority at some point in time in the future. Our census data continues to tell us we are moving at a quicker rate than we would have thought. Financial services does pretty well in the area of gender diversity from the employment perspective. There are a lot more women in this industry than I have seen in others. People are trying to figure out multi-cultural markets. How do you speak to customers from different backgrounds?

It is certainly not the only place. As we create awareness around the buying power of the LGBT community, it is another place where I think you will see more effort from a diversity perspective. If we think about how technology is impacting our world, younger consumers are asking why they can’t use their phone for certain functions. Generations is another important perspective. If you are asking from an industry perspective, I would say people are still trying to tackle the race/ethincity piece of it. I do see efforts in the other places. If I had an agency in Salt Lake City, would I need to think about religion? How would I reach that particular customer base?

So it is most dominant in the multi-cultural space, but branching out into other areas when we talk about what the consumers look like.

Dagoba Group: If you were able to turn the clock back and redo a particular engagement on D&I (either one you have given or experienced), what would it be and why? How would you do it differently?

Earlier in the diversity journey in the 90’s there was a time where my role was Employment Program Manager. My job was to hire women and people of color into the organization. I would bring them into a number of different programs like post-doc, internships, co-op or apprenticeship program. With the apprenticeship program in my organization, we brought the first female firefighters into our organization. Livermore labs was a city unto itself. We had special funding for it. People went through the regular process of being interviewed and hired into different programs. I would fund the salaries for a year for our targeted groups. If they worked out, they would pick up their salaries going forward. At the time it was coming from an affirmative action mindset.

What I realized was we were creating a side door for people to come into the organization and there were ramifications for that. You would go in through the side door and not the normal door everyone else came in. Already there was a bit of a stigma of maybe being not “as good as”. I realized then the way we were going about the work at that time was wrong. We needed to create one door for everyone. We needed to bring everyone in through the front door. If I look back at how we used to do things back then, there were some challenges around it. Some of the people we hired did not have good experiences coming in that way. We had to do education and awareness. That would be something I would change.

My philosophy has changed a lot since those days. I am all about integration. You will hear me say that a lot. I think every recruiter is a diversity recruiter, for example. We started a mentoring program with some emphasis on diversity and then handed it over to the talent practices group once it was up and running. They should be managing it, and it should be integrated. It really impacted my thinking moving forward having gone through that experience. And a lot of people did it that way at that time. The intent was good, but the outcome was not necessarily as good.

Dagoba Group: Some say it is the role of a D&I officer to work themselves out of a job by creating an inclusive workplace which will no longer need the D&I focus. Have you heard this before? How do you respond to this statement?

I used to say that. I still say that. I still see it as the goal of working yourself out of a job. What in truth happens is the world does not stand still. It is constantly shifting. It just becomes a different type of challenge to solve. The next generation of diversity leaders will be really tied to the business and help the business move forward globally. Do I think it is a reality people will work themselves out of a job? Hopefully, they will work themselves out of the job they had and then move onto the next thing. I think of IBM still being in the space of diversity. They were one of the first organizations to really delve into this space. After doing it for 30 years, I would not say they solved it. It keeps evolving.

Dagoba Group: We have been speaking from a very US perspective. We all realize D&I is a global conversation. Which country have you found to be the most advanced in the corporate D&I conversation space? Why?

I don’t have a lot of global experience. I still think the US is the most advanced. I hear some interesting things coming out of the UK. For some folks it is a brand new conversation. Not being the expert in this space, I should not answer this question

Dagoba Group: I asked before to turn back the clock. I am now asking for you to take out your crystal ball and look out ten years from now. Where do you believe we will be in the D&I conservation? Where do you think we should be?

I think we are going to be living in a very much more diverse world. The Brookings Institution had an article that basically said with continued immigration the US will become a white minority population around 2023 which is a lot sooner than most anticipated. I think we will be living in a much more diverse world. I don’t think we would have resolved this challenge around inclusion. Even from a sense of fairness, we have a long way to go as a country. There will be a lot more people interested in this as a field. I believe it will become much more global. There are many organizations looking for that global experience.

If I was younger and advising myself, I would say do what you can to get more international experience. Do what you can be a student of the business. Spend some time in the core of your business and then come out to be a diversity leader. That will really make a difference in increasing your ability to help your company grow.
Ten years from now you will have to have really strong business acumen to do well in the space of diversity as well as have international experience. I don’t see it going away as a need.

Hopefully companies will value diversity of thought and realize that comes from a diverse population. We can’t be innovative if we continue to surround ourselves with like-minded and like-looking people. I believe there is a connection between diversity and innovation. Ten years from now it will be very interesting to see how we leverage the diversity we have in this country. The sky is the limit.

Dagoba Group: Thank you for your time. We really enjoyed the conversation and believe it will be valuable to our readers.