The below transcript is from an September 2011 interview with Lily Benjamin, VP of Organization Development and CDO at Broadridge.  Interviewees for the series Diversity and Inclusion: Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow were asked for their personal opinions and not those reflective of their current or past employer.  The views expressed are not necessarily those of any employer or this website.

Quick Question Links:
Personal History – CDO Role – D&I Origins – D&I Business Reason – Learning Tools – Workforce Application – Dimensions of Difference – Redo? – No Need for CDO Role – Most Advanced Country – Future Prediction

Dagoba Group: Please give us a brief overview of your history within the D&I space.

When I came to this country I did not understand the concept of “diversity”.  It does not translate in my language or my culture.  Now, as an OD professional, understand it, I realize that we do have similar dynamics of inclusion and exclusion based on homogeneous and/ or heterogeneous interactions, but doesn’t have to do as it does in the United States as in gender or color.  For us it has to do with mostly with education and class, though now that I have difference lenses, I see some favoring based on ethnic background within our own people.  However, education and class drive the ethnic background association dynamics.  There I was privileged because I had education and was not from the lower class as we call it.  I was blind, or sheltered, from this concept in my culture.

Dagoba Group:  For our readers, which country are you speaking about?

I am from the Caribbean, Puerto Rico.  Puerto Rico has a very different history than the other Latin countries.  Though we used to belong to Spain, we don’t have the same type of culture as most Latin American’s do, as it is due to the fact that we are an American territory, our culture is also a little bit diluted – some call it ‘americanized’.  Consequently, I have a very different lens when we talk about diversity; not only from a different country, but from another space within the Latino culture.

However, when I came to this country 24 years ago I didn’t have any mechanisms to identify or understand this concept of ‘diversity’ and discrimination.  Now in retrospect, even though I was being discriminated, I was not aware of it because I did not have the tools to identify or deal with it.  I have a background in the health industry; I was a cardiac surgical and intensive care nurse. For 16 years.  The health industry is very diverse.  It is very knowledge based so it does not matter what color you are.  If you are intelligent with a good track record, you are in.  If you do not show a good track record, you are out.  It does not matter how white blue or yellow you are.

So again, though I had been here for 16 years, I continued to be sheltered and consciously unaware of D&I dynamics, in this country even though I was already here.  At a personal, not professional, level, I was going through some type of discrimination that I learned about retrospectively.   I was in a very scientific knowledge based professional group.  Another forum that also sheltered me was my hobby. I have been doing martial arts for 32 years.  My martial art schools were always very diverse. We had black, Korean, Latino, and European.  Again, I was always surrounded by diversity.  We all had a shared goal to learn karate.  In medicine, it was science.  .

It was until I went into OD in which I was exposed to diversity in the way America sees diversity.  It was very painful.  When they said we were going to have a diversity class I got excited because to me diversity was culture.  For me diversity was learning about different cultures.  It was my area of passion.  Suddenly we were a cohort of people in which one third was black and two thirds were white.  Ten percent were male and the rest were women.  I realized suddenly the room divided between white and black. I didn’t get it.  The conversation would go through white and black, white and black.  I wanted to talk about diversity from my lens.  They gave me the courtesy to let me speak, but it would not take traction.  My contribution would plop.  I started getting a little bit anxious about not getting traction from my contribution.  I was the only person that was not a native American.  From citizenship I am American, but I was not born, raised or educated here.  Suddenly I found myself feeling alone and invisible.  It was so so painful.  I struggled with it.  I was not being heard.  I had a mentor from my professional past.  When I talked to her about my struggle of being invisible, she challenged me to take this experience and learn about what it is to feel in that position.  Since I was never there in my country, I did not have this extreme exposure to understand how this happens.  I was not only the minority, but I became that invisible person that the majority tends to overlook.  I did take the opportunity to learn what it is to be a minority and what it is to feel like when the majority overlooks them.  When I realized I could not fight the dynamic of black and white I brought in the global perspective.  How would other cultures look at this?  How would this translate?  That was my first exposure to the true topic of diversity.  One of the things I gave the group, that I did not even know I did until that day we graduated, which it was when I was told, was that I gave them the global perspective of diversity, as I didn’t know that they saw my struggle, though they could not attend to it, because they were dealing with their own struggles.

My degree in Organization Development allowed me to to connect the D&I initiative with the business strategy.  My role expanded to the Chief Diversity Officer.  Ever since I have had this role I have taken to heart all of my learning throughout my journey.

Dagoba Group: When you look at the position of a CDO, what do you believe is the role of the CDO in general and not specifically at your organization?

Generically you spearhead the entire initiative creating the strategy to implement it to overseeing it at a global level. This initiative should not be called diversity.  It should be called inclusion.  Diversity doesn’t translate globally.  In my experience, a lot of the resistance I got from other cultures and countries was because it does not translate.  In French it doesn’t translate.  In Spanish it doesn’t translate. In Portuguese, it doesn’t translate.  It means something else.  When you start to try to find the meaning in that particular language then you are totally losing people’s focus and attention. The description becomes very biased like reverse discrimination when you try to explain it.  When you talk to people about being inclusive it translates in every language.  It also translates in the business language.  The role of the diversity officer is to create, implement and oversee the strategy at a glocal level.  I call it “glocal” because of global reach and local focus. It is also to find the right language to translate so it is not only a nice to have or something forced from the United States.  It becomes what it should be.  This is common sense for the people and for the organization’s business.

I think that type of education, awareness and influence is a big responsibility of the CDO’s role.  I think that we shy away from doing that because we are so busy doing other things.  It is paramount to get true ownership and accountability in this important initiative.

Dagoba Group: Often we hear corporate diversity initiatives originated in response to legal compliance.  Do you believe this is true for your industry?  In your industry, what percent of D&I initiatives do you believe stem from the need to stay legally compliant today?

For the first part of the question, my answer is yes.  From what I read, all of this originated because of legal issues and liabilities.  Although my company started because the board is diverse and believes we are a global company.  For us to understand the global market we need to have diverse and global thinking in house in order to understand the needs of our clients.  However, in the industry it was originated because of legal issues.

I don’t know the actual percentage, but it is making more and more business sense.  A lot of people do not know about it, but on August 18^th Obama signed an executive order requiring all federal agencies to have a D&I plan.  This did not exist before.  It is because they are realizing that in order to become an inclusive culture and an inclusive nation we need to be aware of and sensitive to differences.

In terms of corporate America, global corporations/clients are demanding D&I initiatives.  I am often called by clients asking if we have a D&I strategy.  I have had clients that say they will only move forward if we have supplier diversity programs.  Some put quotas on our supplier diversity.

They are demanding we have the initiatives and we are truly committed to it.

Dagoba Group: When do you believe D&I became a business reason (non-legal compliant) focus within the corporate world? Why?

I think the internet has a lot to do with it.  The internet has flattened the world.  It brings us closer.  I think that towards that time it has become more strategic.  It is a way to corner new markets.  Many companies use ERG’s more strategically.  Cisco has done it.  Kellogg has done it. Pepsi and so many others have done it.  They tap into their own associates internally to better understand the market.  It allows them to improve their products and capture that market.  Avon tapped into their own talent resources and created task forces.  They now have the largest market in Latin America.  Cisco did the same thing.  It makes business sense.  It does improve your financial status and increase retention.  Our workforce is aging.  Our minority and female group is growing.  If you do not open up to diversity, you will be working in a funnel.  Companies that understand the value will be more profitable.

Dagoba Group: Do you believe there is still a lot of work to be done on developing the business case behind D&I?

I think not.  The business case is very clear.  Three points: improvement in financial status, widening the talent pool and market reputation.  It is very clear and nobody can debate it.  However, the actual science of how to be inclusive needs a lot of work.  I keep on alluding to inclusion rather than diversity.  Inclusion drives diversity and not the other way around.  As the only way we create a diverse and inclusive work environment is if we are intentional about nurturing and deliberately engaging diverse talent.  Otherwise, we can have diversity, but not inclusion.  Hence, that intentional involvement will prompt us to seek for diverse perspective AND include them on discussions and decisions.

A lot companies will say they have diversity, but only one person is doing the talking and only one view is being heard.  The business case is irrefutable. You can’t argue growth or retention of talent. You can’t argue reputation.  However, you can argue how much we know about and practice inclusion, while seeing different points of views from different people.  We gravitate towards what is the same and do not pay attention to what is different.  We become exclusive without even noticing it.

Dagoba Group:  What conversation have you found to be the most engaging for line managers?

Line Managers are turned off most around this conversation.  They only get turned on when you talk about how it will affect their business.  I can be effective if I talk about the value to the business.  I help them get more innovation or a more effective way to operate.  That is the door I enter if I need to talk about diversity or inclusion.  Again I stay away from talking about diversity and prefer to talk about inclusion.  I do focus on their business language.  What keeps them up at night is not about how diverse or inclusive they can be.  What keeps them up at night is their bottom line.

I suggested created task forces with different perspectives to come up with different solutions.  These were essentially employee resource groups.  We created ERGs and assigned them with different tasks.  They started to look to make sure there were no missing perspectives at the table.  When you start to focus them on how this makes a difference for the business, they will start to search for the diversity.  They became curious to see what different people thought.

Dagoba Group: On the subject of D&I tools, you spoke of one tool being ERGs. What tools worked best in the past for educating the corporate world in D&I?  Are they still effective today?  What do you believe is the best method for development for today and tomorrow?

There are three tools that have impressed me the most and one I do not believe is being used correctly.  The unconscious bias training you gave us was very memorable. They do not remember the entire course, but the thought of unconscious bias has stuck with them. It has become part of our language because it is in a non-threatening way. They understood it is okay to have them.  There are reasons to have them.  It is about how we manage them.  It was a very important language you brought us here.

The other training which was valuable was interactive theatre.  There are corporate actors acting out a skit around the topics you want to talk about.  For me it was gender, culture, sexual orientation and other topics.  They constantly get interrupted by the facilitator to answer questions around the dialogue.  Without knowing it, we become part of the engagement.  People learn through doing and experiencing.  Those are the lessons we do not forget.  I wish I brought them when I first launched the council.

The third one is micro-inequities.  We could do a better job at teaching micro-inequities.  We could make it much more experiential as well.  It is a global topic.

Dagoba Group: You spoke about supplier diversity and marketing for a targeted diverse clientele.  For your industry, within the workforce D&I area (recruiting, promotions, raises, team development, retention etc.) which one do you believe is the most advanced?  Which has the greatest need?

I don’t think the industry is doing great in recruiting because we are still not a very diverse industry.  However, it is the area that has been the most developed.  There are a lot of agencies and databases focused solely on it.  In terms of which one is the most advanced, I would say none.  In terms of one we focus the most on, I would say recruiting.  Promotions become a difficult issue due to reverse discrimination concerns.  There is a great need in all areas.

Dagoba Group: We spoke about the origination of D&I, the conversation and the tools to convey that conversation.  Now let’s look at the many dimensions of differences within our workplace (e.g. gender, cultural, religious, age, ableness, sexual orientation, ethnicity etc).  For the financial services industry, what do you see as the most wide spread or popular area of development?  Where do you see it moving in the future?

Even though we are not there yet, gender is the focus because it is the only one that can translate globally.  Lately in the US especially there is more focus on sexual orientation, ableness and military.  Recently in India homosexuality was illegal, and it still remains illegal in several other countries, despite of the advancement we’ve had. Sexual orientation has received more attention in the US, but is it not global.

In terms of where it is going to in the future, I see more issues translate globally.  Gender will continue to persevere.  Ableness and military will draw more attention.  My wish is we focus more on culture.  Religion is a little touchy.  We have always had issues around age.  It is more important to understand it and develop a shared language or behavior.  In Brazil, companies get charged penalties for not meeting the quota on ableness.  They are very concerned because the government provides the demands, but not the structure.

Dagoba Group: Whether you are an expert or not the D&I industry requires us to be continual learners because it is constantly evolving.  If you were able to turn the clock back and redo a particular engagement on D&I (either one you have given or experienced), what would it be and why?  How would you do it differently?

It would be in education and awareness.   The leadership has the heart and mind in the right place.  They know it is good for the business, but they do not know how to do it or walk that path.  They have all of the equipment they need but do not have the muscles to make it work yet.  I would have a very sound and solid awareness education.  When I started to work with LGBT, I was very surprised to hear what people were saying.  There was a lot of ignorance.  We have been on this issue for three years.  Recently, our story is much different.

If I wanted to do it differently again, I would wanted to work harder in the beginning.  Sometimes they say slow is best in the beginning. I would have said if we begin this journey we need to know what is the cost, education and level of engagement.  Nobody can walk a path unless they know where they are going, so let’s walk that path together.

Dagoba Group: You have probably heard this before. Some say it is the role of a D&I officer to work themselves out of a job by creating an inclusive workplace which will no longer need the D&I focus.  Have you heard this before? How do you respond to this statement?

They are delirious.  The reason why is because think of a drug addict who goes to rehab and is doing great in the rehab area.  When they come home, they are around other users.  How can they resist not going back into their prior behaviors if they are surrounded by the same environment that was not supportive of their desired drug-free behaviors?  With D&I inclusion it is not today, it is thousands of years of humans gravitating towards what is alike.  People want to have that sense of individuality and feel the way they are is the right way.  When they don’t have awareness they gravitate around people they are like.  That is why we hire in our image.  That is human nature.  We are territorial and gravitate towards what we understand.  You can’t change that.  However, you can raise awareness and ways to manage it.

In an organization, they have a shared goal.  When you have a shared goal, it is easier to focus and if the awareness is there, manage our habitual tendencies of gravitating towards was familiar, while being exclusive. It is hard to do that outside of the organization, consequently the awareness might not become second nature easily, without the reinforcement that the role of a D&I officer and its function provides in the organization.

Dagoba Group: You have a unique asset with a global view from your seat today and you bridge two different cultures.  In your experience, which country have you found to be the most advanced in the corporate D&I space? Why?

In terms of structure, the United States.  We have it here down to a science.  In terms of implementation, I feel Canada has a better understanding.  Its nature is very diverse and welcoming.  They are very polite and inclusive.

Dagoba Group: In today’s economy it is hard to look even two years out.  I am asking you to look further into the future. Ten years from now, where do you believe we will be?  Where would you like us to be?  Will it be the same place?  Let’s focus on the US corporate space.

I am going to be giving you different answers.  If we do not change our approach, we will be in the same place ten years from now.  In 2001, where we in terms of diversity?  It is much the same place we are now.  If we do not change the approach of linking it to the business impact and really working how to do it, we will be in the same place.  Mark my words, we will look at the numbers and have the same representation.  We will be talking about the same issues.  If we change our approach and focus on education and awareness and linkage to the global business impact, then we will have a different result.

In terms of where it should be, I want it to be around inclusion and not just the tangible part of diversity.  There are a lot of intangibles.  I would like it to go beyond the tangible, yet consciously and intentionally seeking to include diverse perspective and people.

Dagoba Group:  Thank you very much for your time today.  You have a very diverse background from cultures, to experiences and knowledge. It will provide another perspective for our community.